tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1693176331381554957.post6427620297519084462..comments2024-03-23T10:16:21.093-07:00Comments on MattCha's Blog: Harmonizing Water and Tea: Choosing the Right Water for Tea- Part 5- Storing WaterMatthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02736984697520031171noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1693176331381554957.post-72594973507694752952012-02-02T19:32:44.999-08:002012-02-02T19:32:44.999-08:00Cho Hak,
Thanks so much for coming back to this i...Cho Hak,<br /><br />Thanks so much for coming back to this issue and giving us a greater perspective.<br /><br />PeaceMatthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02736984697520031171noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1693176331381554957.post-72749295573178061182012-02-02T09:48:24.354-08:002012-02-02T09:48:24.354-08:00We started this discussion some time ago with a sl...We started this discussion some time ago with a slight disagreement between us on the issue of using onggi for the storage of water. There is a third reason the old tea masters may not be using onggi for storing water for tea. It has nothing to do with the onggi jars being made today or the viability of onggi for the storage of water. Certainly if one were to use onggi to store water for tea, the jar must be new and never used for any other purpose. <br />Here is the third reason: In the mid to late 1970’s it was rumored that some onggi potters were using lead in their glazes to reduce the firing temperatures. When the national government discovered this, the practice was quickly forbidden and jars with lead in them were to be destroyed. When I interviewed onggi artists about this, in 1978-79, they all claimed that they didn’t use lead but believed that some other potters might be doing it. Today I am certain that no remaining onggi potter would use lead in his or her glaze. Still the old tea masters may remember this very short period in onggi history and continue to shy away from onggi for this purpose. <br />You might also know that as late as the 1990’s many American potters continued to use lead in their earthenware glazes for functional use and commercial dinnerware companies often used mono-silicate lead in its glazes. I’m not certain those practices are really dead but I hope so. <br />Today onggi is being used by many in Korea to store water for tea.Cho Hakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04798639210955177212noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1693176331381554957.post-26962377827666782522011-04-14T15:39:27.469-07:002011-04-14T15:39:27.469-07:00Devotea,
Hope it is mostly out of convenience, co...Devotea,<br /><br />Hope it is mostly out of convenience, cost effectiveness, and environmental responsibility that people use filtered tap water. But more than not it is because people simply accept that filtered water is "better". If drinking lighter teas, one usually chooses filtered water over tap water if no other options are available. If drinking darker teas, one usually prefers tap water as filtered water takes away too much of the depth- neither are the best situations. If you are primarily a green tea drinker, it is not as bad.<br /><br />But either way the Britta jug is not a proper water storage container! Hahaha<br /><br />PeaceMatthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02736984697520031171noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1693176331381554957.post-70514599045065243092011-04-14T13:16:04.449-07:002011-04-14T13:16:04.449-07:00It's a shame that the best many of us can do i...It's a shame that the best many of us can do is filtered tap water. It has no chemical taste - in stark contrast to our local tap water, which is world-famous for all of the wrong reasons - but at best, it's a flat and unappetising liquid.The Devoteahttp://www.the-devotea.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1693176331381554957.post-89905360662425094172011-03-22T23:20:33.455-07:002011-03-22T23:20:33.455-07:00Water is so important to tea and many, not all, te...Water is so important to tea and many, not all, tea ware artists also understand Tea deeply. I suspect the same is true with Tea masters. Certainly the best Tea masters will also know ceramics very well. <br />You are right in the use of onggi for storing various types of tea.<br />I invite you again to visit www.KoreanOnggi.com as another place to see onggi.Cho Hakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04798639210955177212noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1693176331381554957.post-37380830688618656252011-03-17T17:29:20.177-07:002011-03-17T17:29:20.177-07:00Cho Hak,
Some teaware artists are using onggi for...Cho Hak,<br /><br />Some teaware artists are using onggi for water. Well, theoretically it all makes sense.<br /><br />What is a bit strange is that the teamasters who are not using onggi to store their water for tea definitely know about the benefits of onggi. In fact almost all use onggi as a tea storage container where they store puerh and ddokcha, and sometimes even balhyocha. These containers are ideal because they are so breathable and known for their excellent ability to promote fermentation.<br /><br />Wonder if there is anyone out there with experience using these to store water for tea?<br /><br />Ho Go,<br /><br />Sorry the link doesn't take you directly there. You have to click on the name "Yi, Wan-Su" on the left to see all the onggi.<br /><br /><br />PeaceMatthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02736984697520031171noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1693176331381554957.post-66234489163601922162011-03-17T10:05:15.817-07:002011-03-17T10:05:15.817-07:00hi Matt. I think we could be the first in the West...hi Matt. I think we could be the first in the West to revive the lost uses of onggi in water storage... much to learn and recover. Happy Journey ~ Tokitokihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17022633186053977362noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1693176331381554957.post-69609919346116734372011-03-17T01:08:07.844-07:002011-03-17T01:08:07.844-07:00Matt,
Sorry I mixed up Toki's post and yours....Matt,<br /><br />Sorry I mixed up Toki's post and yours. You are the one that posted a link to onggi pots but I didn't see any at this link.Ho Gohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12296073483005184718noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1693176331381554957.post-69267538168727202142011-03-16T20:12:27.263-07:002011-03-16T20:12:27.263-07:00It seems to me that Korean onggi would be ideal fo...It seems to me that Korean onggi would be ideal for storing water for tea. Made of earth and glazed basically with clay and ashes it is natural. Onggi also breathes unlike many other ceramic types. It has an ideal lip for tying silk across the opening, is wide mouthed for easy dipping of the water and has a substantial lid to protect the silk as well. It comes in many sizes from very small to quite large. I have knowledge of several tea ware artists who use onggi for this purpose. If your readers would like to see some onggi, the web site www.KoreanOnggi.com has many examples. I am looking forward to your opinion of the use of Korean onggi for this purpose.Cho Hakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04798639210955177212noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1693176331381554957.post-1776880672579531112011-03-15T22:11:05.322-07:002011-03-15T22:11:05.322-07:00Toki,
I could not see any Onggi jars in the link ...Toki,<br /><br />I could not see any Onggi jars in the link you gave. Is it correct?<br /><br />Theoretically, Onggi would seem a good choice for water storage. If breathability is the desired feature, onggi delivers. We see this in the foodstuffs stored in them.Ho Gohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12296073483005184718noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1693176331381554957.post-68654169832307416622011-03-15T18:13:45.661-07:002011-03-15T18:13:45.661-07:00Toki,
Hey you had mentioned Adam in an old post o...Toki,<br /><br />Hey you had mentioned Adam in an old post of yours:<br /><br />http://themandarinstea.blogspot.com/2009/05/onggi.html<br /><br />No teamasters that one had met in Korea use onggi to store water for tea. Traditionally, they were also used more as a collecting jar, where the woman would place it on their head and walk home from the water source with fresh water. Due to the shear abundance of them in Korea, there must be a reason that they are not used for this purpose? One has postulated two reasons:<br /><br />If onggi was to be used for water it must only be exposed to water, not any foodstuff. The porous nature of onggi absorbs the probiotics of fermented Korean food this may very well contaminate the water. Most all old onggi would have been contaminated therefore old onggi would not be suitable for storing water.<br /><br />Onggi is very porous which allows for lots of breathablity while it still remains waterproof. Is this type of storage perhaps is too breathable? The form of water storage containers usually have a relatively small opening on top. If maximum breathability was the goal then you would likely see jars that exposed more of the water to air.<br /><br />Mmmmm...<br /><br />Check out these Onggi water jars by famous onggi potter Bok Han Kim:<br /><br />http://www.koreafolkart.com/efrm2-2.htm<br /><br />PeaceMatthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02736984697520031171noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1693176331381554957.post-51341241515182528162011-03-15T08:13:09.854-07:002011-03-15T08:13:09.854-07:00Wonderful post as always. Namaste ~ Toki
This mig...Wonderful post as always. Namaste ~ Toki<br /><br />This might be of interest of you:<br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twgJ6ZGYrT8&feature=channel_pagetokihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17022633186053977362noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1693176331381554957.post-50455559964491713772011-03-15T07:40:54.942-07:002011-03-15T07:40:54.942-07:00Michelle,
Welcome to MattCha's Blog. Sure on...Michelle,<br /><br />Welcome to MattCha's Blog. Sure one can help you ID the tea. Just leave your email address or post a link to the pictures and one will get back to you.<br /><br />Petr,<br /><br />Thanks so much for giving us some insight into glazes and firing temperatures and how they could effect the breatheability of water. The use of river sand is interesting too.<br /><br />Nicolas,<br /><br />Glad you enjoyed it!<br /><br />PeaceMatthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02736984697520031171noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1693176331381554957.post-27073219490457693142011-03-15T06:54:21.377-07:002011-03-15T06:54:21.377-07:00Very good article.
Many thanks
NicolasVery good article.<br />Many thanks<br />NicolasNicolashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17327792265551911566noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1693176331381554957.post-86267007299672758022011-03-14T23:56:22.127-07:002011-03-14T23:56:22.127-07:00Hi Matt,
Your "water posts" inspire me ...Hi Matt,<br /><br />Your "water posts" inspire me to think more about my water...thanks.<br /><br />Some perceptions - Some Korean potters use(d) river sand to make clay stronger during throwing, I think it not only brings more connection with water element but also helps to keep "breathability" of the pot. Breathability means lower firing temperature -it not necessarily means low firing temperature but rather lower temperature then clay needs. <br /><br />-and about glazes: For storage jars in Korea as well as all around the world the most used "glaze" is clay glaze. Fine clay itself or with ash, feldspar in it(both help to melt) From those pictures from the link the first jar is most probably iron rich clay glaze, second(pinky white) mostly feldspar and the third one ash with clay(fifty fifty I guess). So in the traditional way there are no "hazardous elements" - if you know clays, stones and ashes around you.<br /><br />PetrPetr Novákhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11517473309667122386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1693176331381554957.post-19153423582345588122011-03-14T23:45:23.765-07:002011-03-14T23:45:23.765-07:00Many greetings,
I'm sorry to burst in this co...Many greetings,<br /><br />I'm sorry to burst in this conversation so abruptly. It just so happens that I was amazed by your knowledge on this subject, and I thought you might help me to solve a problem. I was recently in Seoul and there I bought different sorts of tea, that I now cannot identify -shame on me-. Would it be possible to show you some pictures of them, in order to get some guidance about what I brought home? I just thaught I would ask. You have a great blog by the way; thank you for sharing all this information.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08978392039780692535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1693176331381554957.post-55934895054160249532011-03-14T17:47:20.856-07:002011-03-14T17:47:20.856-07:00Bev,
Will have to comb through old photo files to...Bev,<br /><br />Will have to comb through old photo files to see what we can come up with.<br /><br />If you follow this link: http://mattchasblog.blogspot.com/2008/02/containing-qi-living-mool-hang-ree.html<br /><br />You can see some very good examples of the Korean water storage containers by renowned Korean ceramist Kim Jeong Pil. The black and whiteish-pink storage containers are in the buncheon style of Korean pottery. While the chipped storage container with the gourd on top is in erabo style.<br /><br />The black glazed collecting jar by the same artist can be seen behind the gourd. It is pretty obstructed but you can get an idea of the opening of the jars mouth as well as the eyelet on the upper corner of the jar.<br /><br />If you click on that photo, it will enlarge the image slightly.<br /><br />PeaceMatthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02736984697520031171noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1693176331381554957.post-90107402426364352042011-03-14T17:20:06.923-07:002011-03-14T17:20:06.923-07:00Loving this discussion (have I mentioned that alre...Loving this discussion (have I mentioned that already? haha). Would really love to see some images of various water vessels, both old and new (if you happen to have access to any). Also, regarding glazed clay vessels -- you note the importance of breathability, which I understand. This probably ventures into truly geeky territory, but what of the specific glaze used? Or even the color of the glaze (a reflective white glaze, or a deep colored glaze that absorbs light)? Some glazes can contain quite hazardous elements while others are more benign, like an ash glaze. Maybe Petr could also shed some light on this matter (if you're reading this, Petr).LTPRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10754182842876404262noreply@blogger.com